you can say the same thing about entitlement reform, national defense. there are things the republican party can do to differentiate themselves from the democratic party, but we're not going to win elections if we continue to be like i said before, the party of todd akin or richard mourdock. >> is karl rove right? you have to be gate keepers, people like party chairs, big fund raisers. >> of course. of course they are. but i don't know that karl rove after his performance in 2012 should be the gate keeper. he was inside the bubble as much as anybody else so much so that he melted down on election night. you know, it was almost like trying to get james brown off the stage. you had to keep going out there saying it's over. it's over. >> into a superstar. that's all i know. that was one night she won the battle. >> she won the battle there. but you need somebody like haley barbour who understands in '93 and '94 had to rebuild the party. haley barbour who would come on our show with other people wouldn't embrace olympia snow. even on jim jeffert's most liber